回应美国媒体对河南洪灾的质疑，俞孔坚接受ASLA博客专访

郑州发生千年一遇的大暴雨后，部分美国媒体刊文质疑中国的海绵城市理念是否能妥善处理城市雨洪。近日，美国景观设计师协会（ASLA）旗下的博客“THE DIRT”就这些问题采访了俞孔坚博士，并于8月4日发布文章，详细记录了俞孔坚对这些质疑的回应，以及对海绵城市发展前景的展望。

原文链接：

https://dirt.asla.org/2021/08/04/kongjian-yu-defends-his-sponge-city-campaign/

俞孔坚捍卫海绵城市理念

Kongjian Yu Defends His Sponge City Campaign

_{作者：Jared Green}

^{▲完整的海绵城市案例——三亚东岸湿地公园，中国海南省三亚市/土人设计}

近期《纽约时报》和《基督科学箴言报》两家美国媒体均刊登文章，质疑中国的海绵城市理论在应对气候变化问题上的有效性。目前愈加频繁的暴雨和大量的瞬时排水正在冲击着中国城市的防洪机制，其中，郑州是当下新闻报道的焦点。这座位于黄河沿岸的城市拥有1200万人口，却面临着一次灾难性洪水，造成300多人死亡，大量人员被困于隧道和地铁内。为此，这两篇文章质疑海绵城市这种基于自然的解决方案能否应对在中国季风性城市中日益泛滥的雨洪。

美国景观设计师协会FALSA会士俞孔坚是海绵城市理论的先行者，也是中国最大的景观设计公司之一“土人设计”的创始人。他在通过Zoom接受视频采访时回应道：“首先，郑州并未完成真正的海绵城市建设，她仍然有太多的硬质开发和灰色基础设施。”鉴于中央政府对海绵城市的大力支持，许多中国城市一直将“海绵城市”一词作为政治口号和吸引中央政府资金的一种途径。

他认为在城市范围内设计和建造坑塘、湿地和公园系统以留住雨水的海绵城市理念已经被证明是有效的。“中国黄泛区受季风气候影响的城市自古以来就利用坑塘等基于自然的设施来管理雨洪。我们可以证明该方法在2000多年里都是有效的，因为这些城市生存了下来。”

^{▲2010ASLA专业奖综合设计类荣誉奖——适应性调色板：天津桥园。中国天津/土人设计}

如今在中国，城市开发要求保证至少30%以上的公共绿地，小区至少有30%的社区绿地。对于俞孔坚而言，这意味着城市有足够的空间来建造可容纳大量雨水的坑塘和公园。他表示：“我们至少有40%左右的城市建设用地可用于绿色海绵建设。如果布局合理均匀，20-30%的绿色海绵足以解决城市内涝灾害。在中国我们常说‘四水归明堂，财水不外流’。我们完全有空间来储存雨水。”

^{▲2012 ASLA专业奖综合设计类杰出奖——水韧性城市中的绿色海绵：群力雨洪公园。中国黑龙江省哈尔滨市/土人设计}

俞孔坚简要介绍了海绵城市理论的关键点。绿色基础设施应从雨水的源头，即降落时的雨水开始收集。“海绵”设施应分布均匀，并利用它们的渗透性来吸收雨水，而不是将水转移到其它地方。“如果设计得当，这就是一个基于本地解决方案的水资源管理系统。”

对于郑州的新闻报道，他指出：“媒体是在寻求矛盾点，瞄准了一些并非‘海绵’的部分。海绵城市理论只会帮助我们解决问题，因此我们需要更多的‘海绵’，而不是更少。”

尽管最近一段他的演讲视频在中国已经有超过1亿人次观看，但他认为关于海绵城市的益处仍需要更好地向公众普及。“一些人不理解海绵城市的理念，有的甚至觉得这是浪费钱。此外，中国的部分工程专业人员一直在抵制这种基于自然的海绵城市方法，因为这取代了他们的工作。”

如果海绵城市按照它应有的方式运作，“就不会再有洪水。当洪水不再带来灾难时，人们也就不再需要记住它。” 

当被问及纽约市通过建设海堤和大规模蓄水池等措施，避免海平面上升引发曼哈顿下城洪水时，他评价称：“蓄水池是不可持续的。”混凝土水箱“必须十分庞大，因此会非常昂贵，也会产生极高的维护费用。”此外，这种方法是在浪费水。水是一种“生命资源，而且当它与植物和土壤结合时还能带来更多的自然资产。” 

俞孔坚呼吁在中国和全球的景观设计和土木工程行业中推广海绵城市的建设理念。“中国的问题在于，一些城市开放空间并不能满足雨洪管理的需求。”而雨洪管理在中国仍然被理解成是市政和水利工程的范畴。

为了解决海绵城市的设计和实施问题，俞孔坚将计划倡导一场跨学科的峰会。“这将会是一次旨在弥合分歧的高层磋商。”

此外，俞孔坚的团队即将出版的中文新书《设计生态的绩效研究》中，将提供海绵城市项目的真实数据。除了视频资料外，他还为中国数以千计参与海绵城市建设的市长提供了参考书。

“在气候变化的时代，洪水问题为景观设计师提供了建立行业解决方案的机会。我们不能只依赖混凝土管道和蓄水池来解决，而是学会设计结合自然。”

^{▲2020 ASLA专业奖通用设计类荣誉奖——设计自然的深邃之形：三亚红树林公园。中国海南省三亚市/土人设计}

Kongjian Yu Defends His Sponge City Campaign

Jared Green, 0804/2021

Two recent articles in the American media — one from The New York Times and another from The Christian Science Monitor — raised questions about the efficacy of China’s sponge city concept in the face of climate change. As storms become more powerful and release more water faster, the flood control mechanisms of Chinese cities are being overrun. News stories have focused on recent dangerous flooding in Zhengzhou, a city of 12 million on the banks of the Yellow River, which killed more than 300 people and trapped others in tunnels and subways. The articles questioned whether nature-based solutions, rooted in the sponge city approach, can handle the increasing amounts of stormwater inundating Chinese cities on rivers and coasts.

In a Zoom interview, Kongjian Yu, FASLA — founder of Turenscape, one of China’s largest landscape architecture firms, and creator of the sponge city concept — said, “first of all, Zhengzhou is not a true sponge city. There has still been way too much development and grey infrastructure.” And many Chinese cities have been using the term “sponge city as a political slogan” and a way to attract central government funding, given the deep support for the approach from Chinese president Xi Jinping.

He believes the benefits of the sponge city approach, which involves designing and constructing city-wide systems of ponds, wetlands, and parks that retain stormwater, have been proven. “Since ancient times, Chinese cities along the Yellow River with monsoon climates have used ponds to manage flooding and stormwater. So we know these approaches worked for over 2,000 years because these cities survived.”

Chinese cities today are required to maintain 30 percent of the city as green space. Another 30 percent is dedicated to community space. For Yu, this means there is more enough space to create more ponds and water-absorbing parks that can capture vast amounts of water. “In 60 percent of the land in cities, we can use nature to retain water so it doesn’t drain away. In China, we have a saying — ‘water is precious, don’t let it go.’ There is plenty of space to be used to retain water.”

Yu outlined the key components of the sponge city approach. Stormwater should be captured using green infrastructure at its source, where it falls. Sponges should be evenly distributed and permeable so they can absorb water instead of shifting it somewhere else. “If properly designed, it’s a democratic water management system” made up of very local solutions.

Yu claims that with the story of Zhengzhou, the “media is seeking conflict and targeting something that isn’t a sponge city. Sponge cities can only solve the problem. We need more sponges, not less.”

Despite a recent video of a talk he gave, which he says has been viewed by more than 100 million Chinese citizens, there still needs to be more public education about the benefits of sponge cities. “Some of the public still doesn’t understand the sponge city concept, and some may find it a waste of money. Furthermore, some civil and hydrological engineers in China have been attacking the sponge city, nature-based approach because it takes away their jobs.”

If a sponge city is working as it should, “there would be no flooding. People forget when they don’t have disasters.”

When asked about NYC’s new approach to handling sea level rise-induced flooding in lower Manhattan, which will involve constructing a sea wall along with large-scale cisterns to store water, he said: “cisterns are unsustainable.” The concrete cisterns “have to be huge and therefore expensive and high maintenance.” Furthermore, this approach wastes water, which is a “living resources and when combined with plants and soils creates more natural resources.”

Yu calls for greater capacity building among the landscape architecture and civil engineering professions in China and elsewhere in the sponge city concept. “The issue in China is that some designers and engineers are building parks but not building in the stormwater management capacity needed.” In China, stormwater is still the responsibility of civil and hydrological engineers.

To address issues with the design and implementation of sponge cities, Yu will be hosting a summit with the leadership of the civil and hydrological engineers at his research and educational campus. “We will have a high-level discussion aimed to bridge the gaps.”

Furthermore, Yu’s team is publishing a new book in Mandarin — Performance Study of Designed Ecologies — that includes real data about sponge city projects. In addition to his videos, he has also produced a textbook for China’s thousands of mayors, who he said are on board with the approach.

“Flooding in the era of climate change presents an opportunity for landscape architects. We have an opportunity to build up our approach. Landscape architects can solve these problems — not with concrete pipes and cisterns — but with nature.”

翻译：申瑞琪

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